How about the black old man that is using the law after shooting the guy in the park that was just playing basketball with his daughter? How do you guys that are in favor of the law, as written, fall on that one?
How about the black old man that is using the law after shooting the guy in the park that was just playing basketball with his daughter? How do you guys that are in favor of the law, as written, fall on that one?
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ANY ARTICLES?Originally Posted by LOSLS2
TRUE: THE MANS MAGAZINE,1949
"To test for gameness a breeder would often chain up a female Pit Bull, show her another dog, and then start cutting off her toes. Unless the bitch made an effort to drag herself on bloody stumps toward the other dog, the breeder did not consider her sufficiently game for breeding".
HONEY BADGER CARES
So essentially rather than use some common sense (which it seems you feel is cowardly) you wish to shit on our Constitution as well as on the right to any due process even in a situation where killing someone is unnecessary ?
For the record I am all about shooting to kill when necessary and I would have zero issue with putting down the woman and here boyfriend involved in the drug deal. Allowing every gun toting twatwaffle on the street to indiscriminately execute anyone that threatens them ? That is just pure idiocy.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/...alrico/1206308
TAMPA — Trevor Dooley's attorney portrayed him Wednesday as a 69-year-old man with fused discs in his neck who feared for his life when set upon by his 41-year-old neighbor, six inches taller and 70 pounds heavier.
Dooley is protected by Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, his attorney argued, firing in self-defense when the most mundane of neighbor disputes turned violent.
It began on a Sunday afternoon, Sept. 26, 2010, beside a Valrico basketball court when Dooley's neighbor, David James, tried to prevent him from shooing away a skateboarder. It ended with James taking a bullet through his heart in front of his 8-year-old daughter.
In a day of anguished testimony, eyewitnesses who included the 14-year-old skateboarder consistently described Dooley as the aggressor who cursed his neighbor and flashed a pistol before a fatal struggle for the gun.
The testimony offered a preview of Dooley's trial on a first-degree manslaughter charge scheduled for January if a judge doesn't dismiss the case based on his Stand Your Ground defense.
In a 911 call played Wednesday for Hillsborough Circuit Judge Ashley Moody, the skateboarder blamed himself. "It was my fault," Spencer Arthur cried to a dispatcher. "He (Dooley) got mad at me because I was skateboarding. I didn't know what the rules are. I don't live there."
But testimony showed that the boy — besides James' stunned 8-year-old daughter — was the least confrontational people on the basketball court that day.
Arthur, now 15, said he was visiting friends in the Twin Lakes neighborhood. He took his skateboard to the park and asked permission to practice trick moves from James, who was shooting hoops with his daughter. The only others in the park were a couple playing tennis.
But the boy then heard a voice from across the street. It was Dooley, outside his garage, shouting that he should get off the court, that there was a no-skateboarding sign. The boy stopped.
He heard James call out to Dooley, "Show me the sign."
Michael Scott Whitt, practicing tennis serves nearby with his wife, Michelle, stopped to watch.
They testified that Dooley briefly went into his garage, then started across the street with a dark object sticking out of his waistband. They said James threw his hands up and said, "Oh, come on."
Dooley and James argued over letting the boy skate until Dooley lifted his shirt and said, "F--- you," the Whitts testified.
They said Dooley turned and started home, but James caught up with him. "Mr. James said, 'Don't flash a weapon,' something like that," Michelle Whitt testified.
Then, she said, Dooley pulled out the gun and James grabbed his hand. The men struggled, they fell to the ground, and James ended up on his knees as Dooley lay on his side. They still wrestled for the gun.
The gun fired.
"Mr. James looked up at us," Michelle Whitt testified. "He said, 'Call 911. I've been shot.' Then he fell over."
He was shot through the heart. A medical examiner said he probably died within seconds.
Michael Whitt called 911 at the same time the boy did. On his call, Whitt cried out, "Oh my God. All this over a skateboard."
Dooley's attorney, Ronald Tulin, repeatedly got the Whitts to describe the difference in size and age between the men. He had them restate their testimony that Dooley was headed back to his house before the fight.
But when questioned by prosecutor Stephen Udagawa, the witnesses persisted in labeling Dooley the aggressor.
They said James never tried to punch or choke Dooley. They said he only went for the gun. "There were no threats, no fists," Michelle Whitt said.
She stopped looking after the shot. All she could think to do, she said, was run to James' little girl, standing nearby.
By late afternoon, testimony was incomplete. Judge Moody said the hearing will continue on Jan. 12. It's not known whether Dooley will testify.
John Barry can be reached at jbarry@tampabay.com or (813) 226-3383.
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If all that is true, Dooley the old man should go to prison.
He was NOT standing his ground. Just because they try to use the law doesn't make it a bad law. Technically everyone who shoots someone can claim to be standing their ground.
turn it on, wind it up, blow it out, GTO
"Shut up, or I will kill both of you." ~O.J. Simpson
I wouldn't say James was wrong for trying to take the gun. But it was foolish. He should have called the cops, there were witnesses that saw the old man flash the weapon.
turn it on, wind it up, blow it out, GTO
"Shut up, or I will kill both of you." ~O.J. Simpson
This situation is the exact same. Dooley left his property in order to pursue a confrontation knowing that he was carrying a deadly weapon. Zimmerman did the same thing. Both victims were subsequently killed after allegedly going for the weapon that the defendant was carrying.
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It's not same (well, we don't have witnesses to Zimmermen's confrontation). Dooley came across the street to bitch about skateboarding and flashed his gun at someone. THAT is a problem.
If Dooley had not flashed any weapon but simply told them to quit skating and left, then was grabbed by James that would be a whole different story.
turn it on, wind it up, blow it out, GTO
"Shut up, or I will kill both of you." ~O.J. Simpson
So what if there hadn't been a witness in this one either? Like I've said before, it's not a bad law. It just needs some clarification because as it sits, no witness means that the shooter walks everytime and even with witnesses, it's very difficult to convict the shooter unless he is clearly somewhere that he should not be.
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If there were no witnesses here, Then Dooley would say he asked nicely for them to stop skating there, didn't show his weapon or make any threats, and James just attacked him leaving him no choice. Just like Zimmerman says, who may or may not be lying.
But there ARE witnesses here.
People will always try to lie to get out of trouble. Can't change that. Doesn't mean the right to defend yourself should be taken and outlawed just because some will try to abuse it. That's the same logic behind outlawing guns.
turn it on, wind it up, blow it out, GTO
"Shut up, or I will kill both of you." ~O.J. Simpson
BTW, Dooley felt so strongly about skateboarding that he was willing to enforce the rules with the threat of deadly force on a playground with children, no less?
Fuck him, he should be under the jail.
Had James taken his gun away and restrained him until the police arrived, Dooley would have been arrested and James a hero. Didn't work out that way on that day.
turn it on, wind it up, blow it out, GTO
"Shut up, or I will kill both of you." ~O.J. Simpson
It looks like I'm going to feed the troll. What are you talking about? Oh I get it. People have a constitutional right to kill people with pipes. No, that's not it. You are saying we should run away from people who intend to do us great bodily harm/take our life and belongings. I'm am fine with you running, that's your right. I'm not going to run. If you get in the way of my life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness I have a problem. I did not say common sense made you a coward. Running away and making someone else have to deal with it does. No where did anyone say people should indiscriminately execute people. That looks like reading comprehension issues.
Last edited by ruler; 04-18-2012 at 03:35 PM.
Um, Dooley May Have Been An Asshole And Should Be Arrested For Brandishing But When Someone Goes For Your Gun After You Retreat (he Went Back To His Home) And Then Goes For Your Gun, This Is A Deadly Situation, So He Is Legally In His Right To Fight For His Gun
TRUE: THE MANS MAGAZINE,1949
"To test for gameness a breeder would often chain up a female Pit Bull, show her another dog, and then start cutting off her toes. Unless the bitch made an effort to drag herself on bloody stumps toward the other dog, the breeder did not consider her sufficiently game for breeding".
HONEY BADGER CARES
Not trolling, merely pointing out that stating you would rather kill than leave a bad situation seems like a lack of common sense or a problem of an overinflated ego. At no point did I state that people should "run away from people who intend to do us great bodily harm/take our life and belongings". I did mention that there are times where leaving would be the better choice. While I can think of several scenarios where leaving would indeed make it another person's problem, I can also think of an equal number of scenarios where doing so would simply make sense and perhaps save a life (maybe yours). Executing someone (or being executed) just because your ego will not let you walk away is not an example of bravery.
There was no physical altercation. Dooley pulled out his gun during an exchange of words. Remember that pursuing someone isn't illegal and an exchange of words is not grounds to use deadly force. If someone that you were arguing with pulled out a gun what would your reaction be? Run away so that your back is to them ? Stand there and beg for your life ? Or would you try and get the gun away from them ?
Agreed!
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin,
Not trolling, merely pointing out that stating you would rather kill than leave a bad situation seems like a lack of common sense or a problem of an overinflated ego. At no point did I state that people should "run away from people who intend to do us great bodily harm/take our life and belongings". I did mention that there are times where leaving would be the better choice. While I can think of several scenarios where leaving would indeed make it another person's problem, I can also think of an equal number of scenarios where doing so would simply make sense and perhaps save a life (maybe yours). Executing someone (or being executed) just because your ego will not let you walk away is not an example of bravery.
I did not say you should kill people (again the reading comprehension thing). I said you shouldn't have to retreat. The scum doesnt make the rules. Where are you getting the thing about executing people? It is trolling because you add things in your response that aren't in the statement you are responding to. Maybe you think others won't read the original post. Now you add things about my ego, saving my life, Killing people and bravery. None of this is related to the original post. Keep trolling, maybe you will hook a marlin.
Last edited by ruler; 04-18-2012 at 05:32 PM.
Where are you getting the thing about executing people? It is trolling because you add things in your response that aren't in the statement you are responding to. Maybe you think others won't read the original post. Now you add things about my ego, saving my life, and bravery. None of this is related to the original post. Keep trolling, maybe you will hook a marlin.
Didn't add a thing actually. Perhaps we should revisit the first post.
Your original post is this:
You call it taking out the trash, I see it as an execution given the above scenario. Not saying that if I were on foot or saw a man approaching a defenseless pedestrian that I would have any issue putting someone down but to shoot someone brandishing a pipe when you have the option of leaving seems like an execution. It also seems like this false bravery is brought on by an inflated ego. If this wasn't your intent then so be it and I apologize for the accusation but you have to understand how this tough guy bravado comes across in your post.
Tough guy bravado, false bravery? I guess this is what the anti gunner/liberal argument would be against knowing your rights and protecting yourself against severe bodily harm. I hope neither of us have to make the choice or deal with scum. You say people should run, I say they don't have to. You call it execution, I call it not being a coward. I think we are at an impass, we should move on.
The way your post came across was that of bravado. Please reread it. You have to see how it can be interpreted that way.
You would actually be surprised if you got to know me. I like guns. I have my CCW and support the 2A. I also wholeheartedly enjoy fighting and kicking the piss out of scumbags when the time calls for it. Hell I actually prefer hands on. I have yet to state that everyone should run or that all scenarios should result in tucking tail. If I am in a situation where someone has a 2 pound weapon like a pipe and is approaching my 3500lb weapon I will use my big ass weapon to escape. Now if the dipshit tries to stop my egress then it is game on but not until I can actually say to myself "I had to do it because my life depended on it." If I couldn't say that and mean it then I would know who the true coward was when this went down. Killing someone when it isn't necessary is the opposite of bravery.
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